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thoughts on electric cars
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Apr 21, 2021 15:14:50   #
Able Man Loc: North Coast (Cleveland, Ohio)
 
Captan Lahti wrote:
From my understanding of how DE engines work they provide a steady supply of electricity to electric Motor drive wheels. There is no need for gearing, just a reostate To regulate the amount of electricity from the generator to the drive motors. It’s a simple arrangement allowing for the carrying and generating of energy in an efficient way. You might have a variable power drill with a cord to plug into an outlet so you can apply as much force or spin as desired. There’s no plugin on the track. But the same convenience and efficiency can be provided by a diesel generator.
From my understanding of how DE engines work they ... (show quote)


I'm wondering if a man could run a generator (under the hood of a car or truck) that would burn alcohol.

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Apr 21, 2021 15:18:50   #
Able Man Loc: North Coast (Cleveland, Ohio)
 
Barnacles wrote:
Yeah, the politicians are already talking about making up for the loss of gasoline tax. They're thinking of having a GPS in your car (YOU'd have to pay for that) and the charge you some amount per mile that you've driven. They'll tell you LATER what that amount per mile is.

And if I know how politicians think, this "per-mile" tax wouldn't be INSTEAD of the gas tax, it would be IN ADDITION TO IT! If the gas tax were to be discontinued, that would make it a "temporary" tax.

If you believe that there's such a thing as a temporary tax, then you're some kind of a Pollyanna!
Yeah, the politicians are already talking about ma... (show quote)


¿Are those idiots REALLY "kicking that idea around"? ... If they are, then it's high-time to BE in contact with our "elected representatives"... (What a load'o...)

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Apr 21, 2021 15:26:13   #
Jeremy Loc: America
 
Ronniejw wrote:
A different perspective than the one pushed by the Greens and Politicians generally!!

How will highways be maintained?? Each state and the Federal Government levies taxes on gasoline and petroleum products!!

Interesting Take on Electric Cars

As an engineer I love the electric vehicle technology However, I have been troubled for a longtime by the fact that the electrical energy to keep the batteries charged has to come from the grid and that means more power generation and a huge increase in the distribution infrastructure.

Whether generated from coal, gas, oil, wind or sun, installed generation capacity is limited. A friend sent me the following that says it very well. You should all take a look at this short article.

IF ELECTRIC CARS DO NOT USE GASOLINE, THEY WILL NOT PARTICIPATE IN PAYING A GASOLINE TAX ON EVERY GALLON THAT IS SOLD FOR AUTOMOBILES, WHICH WAS ENACTED SOME YEARS AGO TO HELP TO MAINTAIN OUR ROADS AND BRIDGES. THEY WILL USE THE ROADS, BUT WILL NOT PAY FOR THEIR MAINTENANCE!

In case you were thinking of buying hybrid or an electric car:
Ever since the advent of electric cars, the REAL cost per mile of those things has never been discussed. All you ever heard was the mpg in terms of gasoline, with nary a mention of the cost of electricity to run it. This is the first article I've ever seen and tells the story pretty much as I expected it to.

Electricity has to be one of the least efficient ways to power things yet they're being shoved down our throats. Glad somebody finally put engineering and math to paper.

At a neighborhood BBQ I was talking to a neighbor, a BC Hydro Executive. I asked him how that renewable thing was doing. He laughed, then got serious.

If you really intend to adopt electric vehicles, he pointed out, you had to face certain realities. For example, a home charging system for a Tesla requires 75 amp service. The average house is equipped with 100 amp service. On our small street (approximately 25 homes), the electrical infrastructure would be unable to carry more than three houses with a single Tesla, each. For even half the homes to have electric vehicles, the system would be wildly over-loaded.

This is the elephant in the room with electric vehicles. Our
residential infrastructure cannot bear the load. So as our genius elected officials promote this nonsense, not only are we being urged to buy these things and replace our reliable, cheap generating systems with expensive, new windmills and solar cells, but we will also have to renovate our entire delivery system! This latter "investment" will not be revealed until we're so far down this dead end road that it will be presented with an 'OOPS...!' and a shrug.

If you want to argue with a green person over cars that are
eco-friendly, just read the following. Note: If you ARE a green person, read it anyway. It's enlightening.

Eric test drove the Chevy Volt at the invitation of General Motors and he writes, "For four days in a row, the fully charged battery lasted only 25 miles before the Volt switched to the reserve gasoline engine. Eric calculated the car got 30 mpg including the 25 miles it ran
on the battery. So, the range including the 9-gallon gas tank and the 16 kwh battery is approximately 270 miles.

It will take you 4.5 hours to drive 270 miles at 60 mph. Then add 10 hours to charge the battery and you have a total trip time of 14.5 hours. In a typical road trip your average speed (including charging time) would be 20 mph.

According to General Motors, the Volt battery holds 16 kwh of electricity. It takes a full 10 hours to charge a drained battery. The cost for the electricity to charge the Volt is never mentioned, so I looked up what I pay for electricity.

I pay approximately (it varies with amount used and the seasons) $1.16 per kwh. 16 kwh x $1.16 per kwh = $18.56 to charge the battery.
$18.56 per charge divided by 25 miles = $0.74 per mile to operate the Volt using the battery.

Compare this to a similar size car with a gasoline engine that gets only 32 mpg. $3.19 per gallon divided by 32 Mpg = $0.10 per mile.

The gasoline powered car costs about $25,000 while the Volt costs $46,000 plus. So the Canadian Government wants loyal Canadians not to do the math, but simply pay twice as much for a car, that costs more than seven times as much to run, and takes three times longer to drive across the country.
A different perspective than the one pushed by the... (show quote)


There is a cost per mile calculated for electric cars already. I agree the power needed for cars is from an existing grid.

Some of the information is true but some of it here is completely wrong.

Electricity here costs 11 cents a KWH not $1.25.

Residential Electrical Panels provide 200 Amps not 100.

75 amps is quick charger. Many charging stations ( quick chargers ) take 20-30 minutes to charge a vehicle at restaurants etc near highways not 10 hours. 10 hours is a slow charge when you have time.

I keep seeing all the car companies saying they will only make electric cars within 10 years etc. I have a feeling they are getting grant money to do Research and Development or something. When 10 years come and something new is the rave I think they will say something else for grant money.

The traction motor idea is a good one in my opinion. I doubt the cars and petroleum production companies will make a car or truck as efficient as locomotives. Read up on how much fuel is used to move freight with a train it’s phenomenal.

The petroleum companies are who do NOT want cars to be efficient let alone electric. They lobby the political people constantly.

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Apr 21, 2021 15:27:35   #
Able Man Loc: North Coast (Cleveland, Ohio)
 
Able Man wrote:
¿Are those idiots REALLY "kicking that idea around"? ... If they are, then it's high-time to BE in contact with our "elected representatives"... (What a load'o...)


On the other hand; I CAN SEE, where those who will figure a way to avoid burning conventional fuels; will NOT, in fact; be paying ¿our? "Fair SHARE" of the construction & maintenance of our highways and byways. ... When driving Commercial trucks, man (OR woman) needs to stop at (before) MANY State boarders and purchase a "Fuel Stamp" for the next state down the highway, which they need to drive IN (or through).
I can't remember for sure, but I THINK that I have posted previously, about a son of a Captain, who I'd worked with (both of them); who had a Chevy truck, that would burn either gasoline OR towmotor fuel (propane).

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Apr 21, 2021 15:41:50   #
Barnacles Loc: Northern California
 
Back in the 1950's, my Dad put a conversion kit on his Ford so that he could run it on gasoline or LP gas. He put a switch on the dash to switch between them. It worked great, although he lost a bit of space in the trunk for the butane tank.

It would probably be a more involved operation with today's cars, as they have a computer (the ECM) that has an "opinion" about everything involving the car. I'm not sure how much you can change under the hood without failing a smog test, either.

You pretty much can't do much that the government hasn't TOLD you to do, or at least approved it.

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Apr 21, 2021 15:46:15   #
Jeremy Loc: America
 
Able Man wrote:
On the other hand; I CAN SEE, where those who will figure a way to avoid burning conventional fuels; will NOT, in fact; be paying ¿our? "Fair SHARE" of the construction & maintenance of our highways and byways. ... When driving Commercial trucks, man (OR woman) needs to stop at (before) MANY State boarders and purchase a "Fuel Stamp" for the next state down the highway, which they need to drive IN (or through).
I can't remember for sure, but I THINK that I have posted previously, about a son of a Captain, who I'd worked with (both of them); who had a Chevy truck, that would burn either gasoline OR towmotor fuel (propane).
On the other hand; I CAN SEE, where those who will... (show quote)



In the Automotive Trade that truck is called a Duel Fuel Vehicle. It’s used a special carburetor to allow proper fuel concentration to allow optimum stoichiometry. Propane has quite a different BTU rating than gasoline

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Apr 21, 2021 15:46:21   #
Able Man Loc: North Coast (Cleveland, Ohio)
 
Barnacles wrote:
Back in the 1950's, my Dad put a conversion kit on his Ford so that he could run it on gasoline or LP gas. He put a switch on the dash to switch between them. It worked great, although he lost a bit of space in the trunk for the butane tank.

It would probably be a more involved operation with today's cars, as they have a computer (the ECM) that has an "opinion" about everything involving the car. I'm not sure how much you can change under the hood without failing a smog test, either.

You pretty much can't do much that the government hasn't TOLD you to do, or at least approved it.
Back in the 1950's, my Dad put a conversion kit on... (show quote)


Yeah, you're probably right about the government...(AND the "computerization of" {nearly everything}) Although, if I owned a motor vehicle and had a garage to work in, I'm thinking that I would be just about ready to "look into it further" and maybe add the option to burn the LPG.

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Apr 21, 2021 15:48:29   #
Ronniejw Loc: West Point MS
 
Barnacles wrote:
Back in the 1950's, my Dad put a conversion kit on his Ford so that he could run it on gasoline or LP gas. He put a switch on the dash to switch between them. It worked great, although he lost a bit of space in the trunk for the butane tank.

It would probably be a more involved operation with today's cars, as they have a computer (the ECM) that has an "opinion" about everything involving the car. I'm not sure how much you can change under the hood without failing a smog test, either.

You pretty much can't do much that the government hasn't TOLD you to do, or at least approved it.
Back in the 1950's, my Dad put a conversion kit on... (show quote)


We had lpg, in cars in Australia going back 40 or more years, less than 1/2 the cost of normal fuel. Was very cost saving on big motors with hardly any loss of power. At one time the government were subsidizing the conversion.

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Apr 21, 2021 15:49:52   #
Able Man Loc: North Coast (Cleveland, Ohio)
 
Jeremy wrote:
In the Automotive Trade that truck is called a Duel Fuel Vehicle. It’s used a special carburetor to allow proper fuel concentration to allow optimum stoichiometry. Propane has quite a different BTU rating than gasoline


I'm not positive if he had "a special" carb on that rig, BUT; I do remember that a quick carburetor adjustment WAS called for, when switching between the two fuels.

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Apr 21, 2021 15:53:33   #
Ronniejw Loc: West Point MS
 
Able Man wrote:
I'm not positive if he had "a special" carb on that rig, BUT; I do remember that a quick carburetor adjustment WAS called for, when switching between the two fuels.


The car has a converter fitted, it runs into a line in the system and is heated to vaporize by the radiator, if the water level got too low it would freeze the converter, had it happen 1 time when there was a blockage in the hose, had to disconnect and remove what was there.

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Apr 21, 2021 15:54:56   #
Jeremy Loc: America
 
Barnacles wrote:
Back in the 1950's, my Dad put a conversion kit on his Ford so that he could run it on gasoline or LP gas. He put a switch on the dash to switch between them. It worked great, although he lost a bit of space in the trunk for the butane tank.

It would probably be a more involved operation with today's cars, as they have a computer (the ECM) that has an "opinion" about everything involving the car. I'm not sure how much you can change under the hood without failing a smog test, either.

You pretty much can't do much that the government hasn't TOLD you to do, or at least approved it.
Back in the 1950's, my Dad put a conversion kit on... (show quote)



Duel Fuel Vehicles have to pass Emissions Test in both fuel modes.

All vehicles are made with capabilities to pass Emissions with plenty of room but when people remove emissions equipment it changes the emissions.

It is a Federal Offense to remove or alter emissions equipment for street use vehicles. Vehicles that were never built that way and vehicles for speed exhibition ( racing ) do NOT have same requirements. Off road Rallies I have been involved with in last few decades require to be street legal so they all have enough equipment to pass.

I helped build and maintain a State Emissions Testing Program for 25 years. The Clean Air Act is pretty clear.

Hydrocarbons cause Cancer. Carbon Monoxide causes Heart Disease.

You should look at pictures of Los Angeles in the 1960’s and look at a modern picture as well as other big cities. Old Timers have told me they had to stay indoors in the old days to avoid Vehicle SMOG

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Apr 21, 2021 15:58:42   #
Jeremy Loc: America
 
Able Man wrote:
I'm not positive if he had "a special" carb on that rig, BUT; I do remember that a quick carburetor adjustment WAS called for, when switching between the two fuels.


So if there wasn’t a carburetor......what would a person adjust when “there was a carburetor adjustment “?

It’s a special Carburetor that is for duel fuel. Gasoline/LP

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Apr 21, 2021 16:01:27   #
Jeremy Loc: America
 
Triple Fuel Carburetor is for LP / Natural Gas / Gasoline

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Apr 21, 2021 16:02:12   #
Jeremy Loc: America
 
There is Propane Trolling motors too

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Apr 21, 2021 16:05:14   #
Able Man Loc: North Coast (Cleveland, Ohio)
 
Jeremy wrote:
Duel Fuel Vehicles have to pass Emissions Test in both fuel modes.

All vehicles are made with capabilities to pass Emissions with plenty of room but when people remove emissions equipment it changes the emissions.

It is a Federal Offense to remove or alter emissions equipment for street use vehicles. Vehicles that were never built that way and vehicles for speed exhibition ( racing ) do NOT have same requirements. Off road Rallies I have been involved with in last few decades require to be street legal so they all have enough equipment to pass.

I helped build and maintain a State Emissions Testing Program for 25 years. The Clean Air Act is pretty clear.

Hydrocarbons cause Cancer. Carbon Monoxide causes Heart Disease.

You should look at pictures of Los Angeles in the 1960’s and look at a modern picture as well as other big cities. Old Timers have told me they had to stay indoors in the old days to avoid Vehicle SMOG
Duel Fuel Vehicles have to pass Emissions Test in ... (show quote)


What a coincidence! My big brother worked for a good many years, installing and maintaining "E-✓ Stations" in NE Ohio, and really seemed to like his job; that is, until one day "in the pit and wrestling with a Dyne" when his back "went out" on him... He was outta work for quite a while, then they had him at the cash register and/or computers, during the testing process... No MO, though. (They closed alot of stations, recently; I b'lieve.)

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