DC Loc: Washington state

I agree it is not unusual for me to catch and release a couple uncliped before catching a clipped fin I could keep. a percentage of those released most likely died and would have been better to catch and keep the first and done

Gmchief Loc: New Hampshire coast

Has anyone else observed that the salmon populations started declining when marine mammals became protected? I’ve seen bull sea lions staged at the base of the fish ladder at the locks in Seattle. No fish in the viewing windows. The seal catches a salmon and moves off to eat it. Then there is a mad dash of salmon up the ladder while the coast is clear. IMHO, too many seals also are a contributing factor in declining Orca populations also.
I have opinions on treaty rights also, having lived in Washington during the fish wars of the 70s. I can elaborate if anyone is curious enough.

DC Loc: Washington state

what I don't understand why don't the puget sound orcas eat those pesky seals and sea lions like they do in other places? and I would like to see what those treaties actually said did it actually say 50/50 split or did it say fishing rights or what and what else was the agreement just curious

Graig Habermann

Truth be told, truth be heard, truth be believed. Truth never be substituted for political advantage, power, or gain. This be done by all, then watch our problems disappear.

DC Loc: Washington state

that would be true if there was a way for everyone to discern the truth but the truth is there is no panokieo effect that reveals lies from truths much less non truths from truths

Diesel Mike Loc: Sequim, Washington

I agree with DC

We usually need to catch and release 6 or 8 fish to get one with out the fin.

Gmchief Loc: New Hampshire coast

First point: Perhaps the orcas do eat seals. I can’t say. We protected the seals and the salmon are endangered. Seals? Climate change? The dams? Who can say. Gulf of Maine cod stocks collapsed. Blamed on overfishing. Now recreational fishermen can keep one cod per trip for 2 weeks in the spring and 2 weeks in the fall. There are more dogfish now than ever. Have the biologists considered predation on young fish as the cause of slow recovery? I don’t know.
Point 2: In the 1970s the treaty was being litigated before Judge Bolt, who decided that the Indians were entitled to half the harvestable salmon. I don’t remember if it was all salmon or wild salmon only.
One of the points of contention was the use of nets. During the hearings one of the chiefs argued that their fathers and their fathers fathers and their fathers before them had always used nets. One of the sportsmen in the room asked about the breaking strength of the nylon their great grandfathers used.
My main heartburn with ancestral and cultural treaty rights is the use of technology. If the indigenous peoples want to maintain their cultural traditions, do so traditionally. Give up your nylon, your outboard motors, your 30-06s and your snowmobiles. While you’re at it give up your Gore-Tex and your Thinsulate. Don’t use cultural traditions to play it both ways. Either live traditionally with traditional methods or use modern technology and follow modern game laws like everyone else. Better yet: do both. Hunt and fish with traditional methods a few days a year for the the species in season. Show your children has to catch salmon with a net they weave from cedar root twine. At other times follow the science like the rest of society. The Makkah tribe does have a whale hunt periodically using a canoe and harpoon. That is how it should be. We are one society with different cultural traditions. Celebrate our differences together and be one nation the rest of the time.
Okay. I’ll get off my high horse now. Thanks for allowing me to pontificate. I warned you in my previous reply that I had opinions on Pacific Northwest fish and game politics. 🤯

Dakoda Loc: Cle Elum, WA

That’s the biggest reason, I suspect.

DC Loc: Washington state

yes I am aware of the bolt decision but I have never read the original Lang. of the treaty. what was the agreement each side made? did it just day they have fishing rights? was it in exchange for them having their own reservation. were they free to govern themselves on their own reservation, were they specifically exempt from the laws of the country, what did each side agree to. the reservation system was a big mistake. we should have given them their own land but no special rights other than to be American citizens having different classes of people is never good for a country. all people are created equal and should have the same rights and live under the same laws and be allowed to have their own cultural differences with in those laws

Gmchief Loc: New Hampshire coast

[quote=DC]yes I am aware of the bolt decision but I have never read the original Lang. of the treaty. what was the agreement each side made? did it just day they have fishing rights? was it in exchange for them having their own reservation.

I don’t know what the treaty said either. I just remember the controversy at the time. It got pretty heated. I also remember that the Coast Guard were the bad guys. We were the enforcement of the rules others made. We had to shut down fishing when quotas were met. This was around the time the Magnuson act was implemented. All this was almost 50 years ago. I hope my memory is correct. I do know that the fishermen still respected us. They knew we were tasked with enforcement. They didn’t necessarily like to see us but they still were glad we were there when they needed us. Mutual respect. We didn’t like impeding their work either.
Regarding nets: The Indians were not allowed to string nets all the way across the rivers. So they put a net halfway across and then a short distance upstream halfway across from the opposite bank, effectively crossing the whole stream. If I remember correctly the upstream tribes were upset with the downstream tribes because upstream didn’t get many fish. I think that went to mediation also.

Fishinfoolyes Loc: Menlo Park

Hmmm, didn’t mean to ignite such a pretty substantive discussion, but these comments hold some strong emotions and deeply held opinions. As someone not familiar with this topic, except from a surface view, I read all your opinions carefully. Thanks.

Pembrook Loc: Bellingham wa

Well for sure there are fewer but for the coho fall run it is a bit early,
Through September try open bay, want the time of your life hit area 5 about 20 September fall hook nose

MarkM Loc: Oregon - Willamette Valley

The salmon run right now is at Buoy 10 on the Columbia River. Opened August 1st for Coho. So far some clipped Chinook as well as smaller returning Coho. Toward the end of the month larger fish should be entering the system. It is still an excellent fishery, but you must have a boat that can manage the conditions. Most fishermen using the 360 method; some bait and spin fish as well. Currently, ONLY clipped fish may be kept. That is subject to change daily so watch both the Oregon and Washington regulations updates. See you on the water.

Huntm22 Loc: Northern Utah. - West Haven

Many folks agree with you Glen!! I have seen pickup beds overflowing with salmon carcasses on tribal land - not a pretty sight. Where have all the salmon gone - think most of us know.

Gmchief Loc: New Hampshire coast

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