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1/19/2021 Thought for Today
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Jan 23, 2021 09:31:29   #
ghaynes1 Loc: Strawberry Plains, TN
 
NoCal Steve wrote:
GH.... no I don't mind sharing at all. There is two ways to explain, blow by blow or an overview. If you don't mind I'll start with an overview. I've always remembered a particularly nasty teenage fight with my parents. I went for the kill shot and equated their IQ level in believing in a God they could never know existed. They both told me a personal experience that they believed was God with them. I told them they were F ing nuts and I'll never forget my Dad calmly looking at me and telling me that someday it would happen to me. Fast forward to 1995, Sept, Elk hunting on the Eastern slope of the Cascades. I was a mess. My divorce devastated me. I was addicted to Tylenol #4's and I had a serious drinking problem. We broke camp for the afternoon hunt but I circled back to camp, threw my bow in the back seat of my truck, grabbed my bottle of whiskey and went road hunting. I was really starting another pity party in my mind. Just as I was within 1/2 mile or so of the tallest peak in the area this feeling started building inside me. It became more and more intense causing me to cry and smile at the same time. Soon I couldn't drive and just stopped my truck and turned off the engine. I'm thinking stroke, heart attack, what is happening and that's when the communication happened. No words, just a knowing as I suddenly knew I was safe. The thought was in my head as a question, am I safe? And I was filled with a knowing, YES. I got out of my truck and fell to my knees and I was thinking, YOU? YES. And for the first time in six years, no, probably my entire life I knew peace. The feeling began to slowly subside and it triggered a certainity inside of me. I believe I even said out loud that I would forget, please never let me forget. Then I was filled with knowing something was going to happen so that I would never forget and it did (I'll share that part some other time as every time I relive this event in my life it affects me like it happened yesterday). Before I left in my truck I put 5 Tylenol 4's in my pocket (at the time I was thinking to help with withdrawals) and threw my pills and whiskey off the edge of a steep cliff. I went 15 years before I allowed myself to drink a beer. I threw the 5 pills in my pocket away because I experienced zero withdrawal symptoms. The Steve that left home for Elk camp that year has never been seen again.
Please feel free to ask me any question you want. I don't have a lot of answers but I will be honest. Of course the thing I get the most is that it was all a byproduct of drugs and alcohol. It wasn't and I have some convincing thoughts to support my position. But the truth is I can't use what I know to help others get past that kind of thinking because the experience, that feeling was so over the top, so beyond something that could be manufacturered... sorry, I can't explain it. So there you go, that's why I'm the wrong guy for anyone to try and convince there is no God.
GH.... no I don't mind sharing at all. There is t... (show quote)


Thanks Steve for sharing. I think I understand why you feel the way you do. I've told my story on FS at the request of other FS members. Mine doesn't draw the conclusion that yours did but some people will believe God brought me back to where I am today. We all have a story. I still have more questions than answers. Some on this site have it all figured out with regard to God and The Bible. I don't. That's okay.

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Jan 23, 2021 12:45:26   #
Spiritof27 Loc: Lincoln, CA
 
I'm not on a mission. I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything. Just letting you all know how I feel. I spent a large part of my life hoping, praying, asking for an event like that to happen to me. Hasn't so far. I don't waste a lot of time worrying about it. I just try to be the best me I can be. Lot of wisdom in the Bible. As is there in the Tao Te Ching. It's the melding that's important to me.

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Jan 23, 2021 13:29:27   #
ghaynes1 Loc: Strawberry Plains, TN
 
Spiritof27 wrote:
I'm not on a mission. I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything. Just letting you all know how I feel. I spent a large part of my life hoping, praying, asking for an event like that to happen to me. Hasn't so far. I don't waste a lot of time worrying about it. I just try to be the best me I can be. Lot of wisdom in the Bible. As is there in the Tao Te Ching. It's the melding that's important to me.


I firmly believe that trying to convince someone to agree with you on certain subjects is the equivalent of banging your head against a concrete wall. The wall stays pretty much as it was. Your head, not so much. If there is a supreme being that gives us free will, then I will believe anything good or bad I've done, I'm responsible for. No one else. I can live with that.

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Jan 23, 2021 14:11:55   #
NoCal Steve Loc: Dunnigan, CA
 
ghaynes1 wrote:
Thanks Steve for sharing. I think I understand why you feel the way you do. I've told my story on FS at the request of other FS members. Mine doesn't draw the conclusion that yours did but some people will believe God brought me back to where I am today. We all have a story. I still have more questions than answers. Some on this site have it all figured out with regard to God and The Bible. I don't. That's okay.


Amen GH... I'm right there with you. So many questions.... the only thing I am sure if is that we are not alone.

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Jan 23, 2021 14:14:38   #
NoCal Steve Loc: Dunnigan, CA
 
Spiritof27 wrote:
I'm not on a mission. I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything. Just letting you all know how I feel. I spent a large part of my life hoping, praying, asking for an event like that to happen to me. Hasn't so far. I don't waste a lot of time worrying about it. I just try to be the best me I can be. Lot of wisdom in the Bible. As is there in the Tao Te Ching. It's the melding that's important to me.


Paul... you are a good man. What better goal could there possibly be?

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Jan 23, 2021 14:24:07   #
Randyhartford Loc: Lawrence, Kansas
 
FixorFish wrote:
This has been quite the entertaining thread, all 8 pages, thus far.
As a 67 yr old, "son of a preacher man", I have long encountered the above "to and fro", both as a participant and an observer, and find the conversation to most always be engaging, but rarely conclusive...... wait, wanna take that back...... NEVER conclusive.

If I thought for one instant, every word of "the bible"(Randy quotes KJV, a version my Father abandoned late 50's, early 60's, in favor of the RSV, and later, the NRSV) was actually "the Word of God", rather than the interpretation and subsequent browbeating of those who would not/could not comply, of the thousands of "editors" through the past two millennia, I might be a bit more inclined to embrace the entire book, though as Lewis Black (a Jew) so profoundly put it..."Hey Gentiles, 2/3 of "your Bible" is our book !! Afraid the thin little pamphlet that actually quotes "your guy" wouldn't sell ? Had to keep embellishing and distorting the original premise, with Paul and others wanting "writing credits", 200+ years after the guy died ?

Lewis don't mince words, or make you wonder what he said, ever..... that's why I like him.
Harsh, irate at imbecility, got no time to wrangle over "interpretation", just give me the facts without adding a slant.

And if that's not possible.....???
Long row to hoe, huh ?
This has been quite the entertaining thread, all 8... (show quote)


As you know, God gives us all the choice to believe or not to believe. I choose to believe; you apparently choose otherwise.

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Jan 23, 2021 14:26:52   #
NoCal Steve Loc: Dunnigan, CA
 
Spiritof27 wrote:
I'm not on a mission. I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything. Just letting you all know how I feel. I spent a large part of my life hoping, praying, asking for an event like that to happen to me. Hasn't so far. I don't waste a lot of time worrying about it. I just try to be the best me I can be. Lot of wisdom in the Bible. As is there in the Tao Te Ching. It's the melding that's important to me.


This is from the heart Spirit... be careful what you wish for. Remember in the movie Saving Private Ryan as Tom Hanks is dying he looks Ryan in the eye and tells him to make all this worth it? And then the scene where a much older Ryan collapses at Tom Hanks grave, his family behind him and with eyes filled with tears he says I hope I did OK? Mind you, I am not complaing but that is a burden I carry every day. Am I making sense? I hope I'm communicating well enough?

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Jan 23, 2021 14:35:27   #
NoCal Steve Loc: Dunnigan, CA
 
Randyhartford wrote:
As you know, God gives us all the choice to believe or not to believe. I choose to believe; you apparently choose otherwise.


OK, I just finished 10 deep breaths and I am going to completely change my response to you Randy. It is a question of faith. Do you not have enough faith in God that He will provide everyone with what they need at the time they need it to draw the most important conclusion in this life? Do you accept your role as a tool or even a spec of dust or a Johnny Appleseed or a drop of water for a seed or a fool to provide a thought... are you getting my message Randy?

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Jan 23, 2021 15:07:05   #
Spiritof27 Loc: Lincoln, CA
 
Randyhartford wrote:
As you know, God gives us all the choice to believe or not to believe. I choose to believe; you apparently choose otherwise.



I disagree Randy. I don't think for a second that you "choose" to believe. You could no more turn that off than I can turn it on. Either that or I don't know what you mean by "believe".

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Jan 23, 2021 16:01:55   #
Randyhartford Loc: Lawrence, Kansas
 
NoCal Steve wrote:
OK, I just finished 10 deep breaths and I am going to completely change my response to you Randy. It is a question of faith. Do you not have enough faith in God that He will provide everyone with what they need at the time they need it to draw the most important conclusion in this life? Do you accept your role as a tool or even a spec of dust or a Johnny Appleseed or a drop of water for a seed or a fool to provide a thought... are you getting my message Randy?


I think I understand what you’re saying, but I also believe God has given us instructions, as to what we are supposed to do, as Christians. My role, as a tool, seed, etc is stated clearly in
Mark 16:15-16.“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬
https://www.bible.com/1/mrk.16.15-16.kjv
That is what I’m trying to do.

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Jan 23, 2021 16:19:15   #
ghaynes1 Loc: Strawberry Plains, TN
 
Randyhartford wrote:
I think I understand what you’re saying, but I also believe God has given us instructions, as to what we are supposed to do, as Christians. My role, as a tool, seed, etc is stated clearly in
Mark 16:15-16.“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬
https://www.bible.com/1/mrk.16.15-16.kjv
That is what I’m trying to do.


This thread has gone on for 9 pages. Kind of impressive. Just my 2 cents Randy, I admire and respect your strong faith and belief in something bigger than ourselves. I wish I had the conviction and belief that you have. I guess we are all products of our upbringing and experiences throughout life.

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Jan 23, 2021 16:38:01   #
Randyhartford Loc: Lawrence, Kansas
 
Spiritof27 wrote:
I disagree Randy. I don't think for a second that you "choose" to believe. You could no more turn that off than I can turn it on. Either that or I don't know what you mean by "believe".


Let me explain in as simple a way as I know. How can someone believe in something or someone they have never seen?A person must first have faith that God exists. Rom.12:3 says every man is dealt the measure of faith.
The story of “doubting” Thomas is a good example of this kind of faith.
“But Thomas, one of the twelve, called Didymus, was not with them when Jesus came. The other disciples therefore said unto him, We have seen the Lord. But he said unto them, Except I shall see in his hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of the nails, and thrust my hand into his side, I will not believe. And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them: then came Jesus, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, Peace be unto you. Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing. And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God. Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.”
‭‭John‬ ‭20:24-29‬ ‭KJV‬‬
https://www.bible.com/1/jhn.20.24-29.kjv

I can’t see the wind, but I KNOW it exists, because I can see the effects of it everywhere. I can’t see God, but I can feel and see His effects on my life and the lives of others. But it starts with having faith that God exists.

“So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭10:17‬ ‭KJV‬‬
https://www.bible.com/1/rom.10.17.kjv

I’m not sure this helps, but there must be a way for you to exercise that “measure of faith” that God has given you. 🙏🏻

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Jan 23, 2021 16:50:39   #
Spiritof27 Loc: Lincoln, CA
 
I see a big difference in "belief" and "faith". I understand faith and I admire folks that hold to theirs. I believe that the earth revolves around the sun. This is not readily apparent, but if you do a little studying and observation you can understand why it so. I have faith that the sun will appear to set in the evening and rise again in he morning, and I have absolutely no assurance that those things will happen. In other words, I have faith in my belief.
So again Randy, I don't see how you (YOU) could just decide that you are not going to believe in God anymore. If you want to convince me of something, convince me that that could be possible and we can go from there.

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Jan 23, 2021 16:59:12   #
Randyhartford Loc: Lawrence, Kansas
 
Randyhartford wrote:
Let me explain in as simple a way as I know. How can someone believe in something or someone they have never seen?A person must first have faith that God exists. Rom.12:3 says every man is dealt the measure of faith.
The story of “doubting” Thomas is a good example of this kind of faith.
“But Thomas, one of the twelve, called Didymus, was not with them when Jesus came. The other disciples therefore said unto him, We have seen the Lord. But he said unto them, Except I shall see in his hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of the nails, and thrust my hand into his side, I will not believe. And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them: then came Jesus, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, Peace be unto you. Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing. And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God. Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.”
‭‭John‬ ‭20:24-29‬ ‭KJV‬‬
https://www.bible.com/1/jhn.20.24-29.kjv

I can’t see the wind, but I KNOW it exists, because I can see the effects of it everywhere. I can’t see God, but I can feel and see His effects on my life and the lives of others. But it starts with having faith that God exists.

“So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭10:17‬ ‭KJV‬‬
https://www.bible.com/1/rom.10.17.kjv

I’m not sure this helps, but there must be a way for you to exercise that “measure of faith” that God has given you. 🙏🏻
Let me explain in as simple a way as I know. How c... (show quote)


Spirit: Start by asking yourself:
What if......?
I know many things in the Bible don’t make sense or even seem possible: virgin birth - raised from death - eternal life - hell -
Heaven - etc. But what if ??

We have experienced things just recently here in the US , that nobody would have believed would ever happen only a few years ago. We now see those things are real and DID happen.
Just sayin’ .....

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Jan 23, 2021 17:31:25   #
Randyhartford Loc: Lawrence, Kansas
 
Spiritof27 wrote:
I see a big difference in "belief" and "faith". I understand faith and I admire folks that hold to theirs. I believe that the earth revolves around the sun. This is not readily apparent, but if you do a little studying and observation you can understand why it so. I have faith that the sun will appear to set in the evening and rise again in he morning, and I have absolutely no assurance that those things will happen. In other words, I have faith in my belief.
So again Randy, I don't see how you (YOU) could just decide that you are not going to believe in God anymore. If you want to convince me of something, convince me that that could be possible and we can go from there.
I see a big difference in "belief" and &... (show quote)


Unfortunately, that very thing happens all the time with people.
Tragic events have caused many believers to turn from God and their faith; many from the exact events that you have posted as being reasons for your unbelief.

I could never stop believing in the existence of God, because I have seen with my own eyes, too many miracles and works He has done in other’s lives. That is not to say it would be impossible for me to turn away from God and stop serving Him. There is a constant war going on between God and Satan.

“Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:”
‭‭1 Peter‬ ‭5:8‬ ‭KJV‬‬
https://www.bible.com/1/1pe.5.8.kjv

That is basically why bad things happen to good people.

God has increased my faith in Him, over the course of my life, by showing Himself real. Maybe He knew I am the type that has to have proof of everything, too.
IDK
At this point, it may take (you) experiencing a Divine miracle, or the Holy Spirit changing your mind/heart. That’s above my “pay grade”. 🙏🏻

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