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Climate change affecting fish size
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Note: posting politics outside of the Attic is against forum rules. Users that bring politics into this discussion will have their accounts banned from replying in this topic. Repeated violations will lead to account suspension.
 
Sep 20, 2021 13:51:38   #
Miley1 Loc: Northampton county,Pa,Bangor
 
Mauwehu wrote:
Don’t bet against Mother Nature. Remember the gulf oil spill? It was the end of the gulf eco system. A year later between Mother Nature and man with the clean up it was like it never happened.
But I will blame the smaller fish I’ve been catching on Mother Nature!


I am going to say that the over fishing by China- Japan and other countries are having a big effect on size.

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Sep 20, 2021 14:14:12   #
Will Beachy Loc: Middlebury,In
 
I think it's more over fishing the ocean. Look at those big trawlers and all the by catch that they kill. When you wipe out all the food supply ,it's hard for fish to grow

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Sep 20, 2021 14:41:15   #
WattaFish Loc: Sonoma County CA
 
This is very interesting to me. I was going to do a post about 3 weeks ago, after coming back from the Klamath River, legendary northern Californian fall salmon run. This post has inspired me.
While fishing pretty damn hard for about 2 days solid, it was evident there weren't many adult fish in the river. As a matter of fact, we were wondering where all the half pounders (steelhead) were. During that time, I only saw one fish caught; a jack salmon at the end of my brief stay. I was wading; boaters did a little better, but that's not the point. I'm not complaining about coming home empty handed.
Talking with my fellow waders, who were veterans of the fishery-including one who had grown up on the river, whose father owned the local tackle shop, and now he did-everyone said, in their own way, "Something's wrong." Speaking personally, what really bothered me was how dramatic the decline was in just a 20 year window, which is very tiny, speaking biologically/evolutionary. It really saddened me, to see the impact of the countless times the natural cycle has been interrupted.
Salmonoid species in particular, which is pretty much exclusively what I target, need cooler water, just for starts. Not only for spawning, but to thrive. Bottom line, it's habitat destruction/degradation. Of course, an increased human population increases the impact we have on other species, and unfortunately as we've learned, the damage.
...a well known fact is that hunters and fishing people are among the biggest "conservationists" around...

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Sep 20, 2021 14:51:09   #
RuffplayOR57 Loc: Klamath Falls, OR
 
mistred64 wrote:
I just saw a piece on the national news about climate change and warming waters are shrinking fish size. They talked about salmon and how salmon spawning is changing because of water temp and better oxygen in the cooler water and its making them smaller. Restaurant owners are saying the salmon fillets they get are smaller than what they got 10 years ago. I'm not a scientist so I don't understand it and can't explain. I briefly looked online and info is out there. They talk about ocean fish, the smaller species are getting smaller, the larger species are getting bigger. By 2100 60% of todays fish won't exist. I'm sure they'll be replaced because that's what nature does. Thought I would throw that out there.
I just saw a piece on the national news about clim... (show quote)


Boy did You Spark a conversation mistred64!
I’m not sure how much the human race is effecting climate change, but I do believe it has changed since I was a young boy. I’ve lived in the Same area for well over 60 years and we No longer get the amount of Winter Snow that we got back then. As far as fish size and numbers, I believe most of that is definitely human driven. We see Salmon numbers dropping off every year. When checking into this I see More People fish than ever before, and then there’s the Idiots that illegally plant Smallmouth in rivers that the Salmon run up to Spawn, or the Fish & Wildlife division plants Striped Bass in the river on Purpose. Both of those eat Thousands & Thousand of Salmon Smolt Every Year, and can totally destroy a Salmon Ecosystem. Im not sure what the Answer is, but cannot be Totally blamed on Global Warming. The US could do All it could do, and if the rest of the world including China didn’t, and They Won’t, change how much they Pollute is Not going to Stop Changing the effects humans have on All wildlife. Just my opinion, but I Do Hope we all do Our best to leave this world Intact so our children, grandchildren, great grandchildren and such can enjoy the outdoors and wildlife for years and years to come!

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Sep 20, 2021 15:08:17   #
badbobby Loc: Humble Texas
 
mistred64 wrote:
I just saw a piece on the national news about climate change and warming waters are shrinking fish size. They talked about salmon and how salmon spawning is changing because of water temp and better oxygen in the cooler water and its making them smaller. Restaurant owners are saying the salmon fillets they get are smaller than what they got 10 years ago. I'm not a scientist so I don't understand it and can't explain. I briefly looked online and info is out there. They talk about ocean fish, the smaller species are getting smaller, the larger species are getting bigger. By 2100 60% of todays fish won't exist. I'm sure they'll be replaced because that's what nature does. Thought I would throw that out there.
I just saw a piece on the national news about clim... (show quote)

if they get to where they don't exist ed
it damn sure ain't because I been catchin too many

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Sep 20, 2021 15:09:03   #
Sheepdog
 
Amen to Mother Nature knowing what’s best if we will concentrate on doing what we know for sure harms us then Mother Nature will fix herself

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Sep 20, 2021 15:09:29   #
MuskyHunter Loc: Torrington, CT
 
Jakestake83 wrote:
Climate change is almost as popular a subject as Racism when discussing almost any subject that has been politicized. I wrote an article years ago about the massive fish that are on the walls of northern outfitters, like the Muskies that are 6 feet long, when today if you can find one that is 50 inches long you have a trophy. The answer is simple, there are just more people fishing for these monsters these days and with the additional fishing pressure and somewhat less nutrition in the waters, the fish are just not living as long. You can't find a book about the science of Nature, but you sure can find many that discuss climate change. Nature is making the determinations about what species survive and which ones do not. I believe that Nature has as its motive, Survival of the fittest and in general I think that Nature is doing a fine job.
Climate change is almost as popular a subject as R... (show quote)


As near as I can tell. there has never been a muskie 72 inches in length recorded (that can be relied on). I have been in dozens of outfitters in the north since 1965, many of which had muskies on the wall back then. The biggest I have seen is 54 inches. I do know people who have recently caught muskies approaching 60 inches in the last few years. Warmer waters favor growth for muskies. Warmer waters do not favor growth for northern pike.

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Sep 20, 2021 15:10:08   #
badbobby Loc: Humble Texas
 
Sinker Rig wrote:
Not sure fish size will be an issue, clean air might be. I believe my penis has gotten smaller......climate change?


try hot instead a cold showers Sink

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Sep 20, 2021 15:28:17   #
mistred64 Loc: Grayslake, illinois
 
badbobby wrote:
if they get to where they don't exist ed
it damn sure ain't because I been catchin too many


Same here.

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Sep 20, 2021 16:07:47   #
Shutupandfish Loc: Transplanted roots back to Wyoming
 
mistred64 wrote:
I just saw a piece on the national news about climate change and warming waters are shrinking fish size. They talked about salmon and how salmon spawning is changing because of water temp and better oxygen in the cooler water and its making them smaller. Restaurant owners are saying the salmon fillets they get are smaller than what they got 10 years ago. I'm not a scientist so I don't understand it and can't explain. I briefly looked online and info is out there. They talk about ocean fish, the smaller species are getting smaller, the larger species are getting bigger. By 2100 60% of todays fish won't exist. I'm sure they'll be replaced because that's what nature does. Thought I would throw that out there.
I just saw a piece on the national news about clim... (show quote)


So did my morning research, we got our limit of two chinook in the boat and with two of us fishing, yup running 10 lbs smaller average from 10 years ago. The smaller at 12 lbs (hatchery) is now considered good keeper and the bigger (wild) at little over 15 lbs was the biggest the fish checker gal back at the ramp had seen in awhile. 10 years ago 25-35 was keeper and 35-40 lbs used to be not uncommon







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Sep 20, 2021 16:12:37   #
bbb_ark Loc: Fresno CA
 
Salmon size is not dependent on fishing pressure, but availability of fish to be caught back in the river is. Salmon spawn in the river, make their way to the ocean, then return to the river 2 to 6 years later depending on species. They are caught (mainly commercially) in the ocean when they are returning to the river and in river by tribes and sportsmen. They are not like a black bass, a crappie a catfish - the longer they go without being caught in a lake/river/pond the bigger they will get. The biggest thing that affects their size is the availability of food in the ocean and this is dependent on water temperature in historic zones for the salmon. There is much more information out there, google it. For fresh water fish, I would assume warmer water (within reason) would give them a longer growing season and thusly be larger in general. Then again, this also gives a longer fishing season so................

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Sep 20, 2021 16:13:08   #
badbobby Loc: Humble Texas
 
Shutupandfish wrote:
So did my morning research, we got our limit of two chinook in the boat and with two of us fishing, yup running 10 lbs smaller average from 10 years ago. The smaller at 12 lbs (hatchery) is now considered good keeper and the bigger (wild) at little over 15 lbs was the biggest the fish checker gal back at the ramp had seen in awhile. 10 years ago 25-35 was keeper and 35-40 lbs used to be not uncommon


you still gotta be pleased
nice fish Shutup

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Sep 20, 2021 16:13:18   #
ripper1a Loc: So Cal
 
Nice fish , definetly on my bucket list

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Sep 20, 2021 16:48:21   #
Johnston89 Loc: Eastern Oregon
 
Shutupandfish wrote:
So did my morning research, we got our limit of two chinook in the boat and with two of us fishing, yup running 10 lbs smaller average from 10 years ago. The smaller at 12 lbs (hatchery) is now considered good keeper and the bigger (wild) at little over 15 lbs was the biggest the fish checker gal back at the ramp had seen in awhile. 10 years ago 25-35 was keeper and 35-40 lbs used to be not uncommon


Do you fish at the Confluence of the Snake and Clearwater rivers at all? Been looking for a report if the steelhead have started moving into the Clearwater in any numbers lately
Thanks man
Charley

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Sep 20, 2021 17:47:19   #
Captain Lahti Loc: Kennewick, WA
 
Grizzly 17 wrote:
I wouldn't bet on anything being here by 2100. I'll let you know when I find out 😉😉. Seems like salmon are being hurt by all the dams they are building on some rivers according to A show I watched. That n pollution.


In the Columbia river drainage which is an iconic system for salmon and steelhead they are NOT building any new dams. The last dam built on the Columbia is almost a quarter century old. If not more so. They all have fish passage and fish counting. Virtually as many salmon and steelhead that pass the first dam on the Snake also make it up past the last dam with fish passage. There are two upper dams on the Columbia and four on the upper Snake that were built without fish passage and no salmon or steelhead can get past them those dams are not being considered for removal though. Before Grand Coollee dam was built before WWII there was a run of salmon that went by that location and up into Canada that went over 100 pounds. They needed that size to make the trip.

RecentLy fisheries biologists were discussing the crash of Steelhead runs up the Columbia. Still fish coming but a constant decline each year. To the point that most fishing for them has been closed. They speculate that it’s the deep ocean conditions that are affecting their numbers as they mature. They leave the rivers and go way out to sea unlike salmon who stay relatively close to shore as they mature. There is something going on in the deep ocean compared to more inshore but research is very difficult way out so there is no definitive data on what’s happening to smolts in their first few years at sea or the adults who have come in to spawn and returned to sea for subsequent years of adulthood. My guess is that is related to food supply and that is related to ocean temperature. Then on top of that rivers run hotter and shallower because of a shifting climate.

Billions have been spent by rate payers in the PNW to improve fish passage and hatcheries but that only helps so much if fish aren’t surviving the oceans or the predators they run into as they come back up rivers to spawn. Even smolts going out run a gantlet of fish eating birds and seals who are protected.

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