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Information on Motor problems
Jul 26, 2020 10:34:46   #
threeCs Loc: Allen Texas
 
Fuel problems

If you are having fuel problems with gas engines, I would suggest you take some or all of the following suggestions.

Ethanol is a bad dude !!. It attracts water and therefore it will cause problems either in the fuel tank or the carburetor. There are additives that help this problem but none are 100% effective. Gasoline with out ethanol is available in some areas but can be expensive. There is information on the internet on how to remove the ethanol from gasoline. I have tried it and it works. Takes a little while but well worth it.

Those of us who maintain older gasoline motors, have units that were not designed to use ethanol gasoline. Ethanol can cause older engines to burn valves seats. The newer engines I understand have valve seats that can withstand the higher temperature.

Older fuel lines were not designed to handle ethanol either. I have found out that the fuel lines that Attwood makes are not 100% effective against ethanol. Attwood has added a liner to their hose as a solution but even that sometimes fails. Check your fuel lines to make sure they have not deteriorated and creating partial or full blockage. Extra care must be taken when repairing the Attwood hose because the inner liner must fit over the fitting to assure proper flow.

Auto supply houses has a hose that is good for ethanol but it is not designed to with stand sun light as the Attwood hoses are. If the auto hose is exposed to sunlight in your usage be sure the check regularly
for signs of deterioration, especially cracks.

Use a pressure gauge to check output pressure from your fuel pump. Here again ethanol is not kind to the diaphragm in the fuel pump.

This for those of you who use the portable fuel tanks. The EPA required fuel connections that I purchased, don't recall brand name but bought at Walmart or Academy, proved not to be dependable on making proper connection each time. They are designed to prevent fuel spillage when disconnecting fuel lines. Sometime connection was good and sometime it would hinder fuel flow. For that reason I took the time to removed the fixed on board fuel tank from my pontoon and give it a through cleaning. It has permanent fitting. Collection of water and other crud was the reason I went to a portable tank in the past but now the on board tank if good.

I found out the above information while battling a problem with my motor. Motor would not reach max rpm. Some time it would reach 3/4 rpm for a short while and then fail as if it was out of fuel so I investigated the fuel system. As it turned out there were two problems: 1. the EPA fuel required portable fuel tank connection was not dependable and that caused the motor to reach 3/4 rpm and then die down because it was restricting fuel flow. ( After total rebuild of the fuel distribution system it still failed to reach max rpm, but did not slow because of fuel starvation.) 2. the real reason motor would not reach max rpm turned out to be bad reed plates. When I googled the problem on line I got all kinds of solutions. Timing, fuel distribution, plugs, coils, but not a mention of reed plates, if fact a few said it would not be reed plates. My advice is this. Remove silencer covers from front of carburetor and check for blow back. If you have blow back trough carburetor, then reed plates need to be inspected. My engine used three reed plates with six fingers on each reed plate. I found the out of the total 18 fingers 12 were not seating properly. They also cause excessive fuel consumption. Engine now runs great.

I forgot to mention that the engine is a 1988 model so I guess the reed plates had a reason to fail. I did the repair myself and total bill was less the $150. Reed plates were not as expensive as I expected, $106.99 for three reed plates, shipping and tax.

Before I decided spent the money on reed plates, I rechecked compression and found it to be within limits but still was hesitant to proceed so pulled head and inspected cylinders for any sign of damage but they were in good shape.

So total cost was reed plates, manifold gasket and head gasket.

I am posting this in hopes someone will benefit from my efforts. I know that I learned a great deal and I have been doing engine repair all my life but not as much on 2 cycle engines they are a breed of their own.

Thanks for reading. Any questions.

Reply
Jul 26, 2020 11:31:20   #
nicstr28
 
Good info/post. What brand is the 88 motor?

Reply
Jul 26, 2020 12:14:41   #
Fiberglassworker Loc: cleveland Tn
 
I have been preaching about this for several years. If a motor is run constantly the Ethanol is a semi good thing, it will absorb any moisture in the fuel and cuts down on Co. However if the motor is not run for a week then it is the kiss of death, the alcohol will absorb moisture out of the air until it cannot hold any more, then you get phase separation , the water will drop out of the fuel and collect in the bottom of the fuel tank. If this stuff gets into the carb, the older aluminum carbs will react and produce a white oxide powder, combined with the water it make a white paste like salad dressing, this stuff gets into jets and blocks passageways on carbs causing rough running , mixture problems ,hard starting and other ills until it is cleaned out. The newer motors with sealed fuel systems and stainless steel float bowls do not have as much trouble but even they need to be cleaned out from time to time.

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Jul 26, 2020 13:14:43   #
Robert J Samples Loc: Round Rock, Texas
 
3Cs That is good to know. Thanks for sharing. Just Sayin...RJS

Reply
Jul 26, 2020 13:42:03   #
threeCs Loc: Allen Texas
 
nicstr28 wrote:
Good info/post. What brand is the 88 motor?


Johnson 70 hp

Reply
Jul 26, 2020 20:54:26   #
Fredfish Loc: Prospect CT.
 
threeCs wrote:
Fuel problems

If you are having fuel problems with gas engines, I would suggest you take some or all of the following suggestions.

Ethanol is a bad dude !!. It attracts water and therefore it will cause problems either in the fuel tank or the carburetor. There are additives that help this problem but none are 100% effective. Gasoline with out ethanol is available in some areas but can be expensive. There is information on the internet on how to remove the ethanol from gasoline. I have tried it and it works. Takes a little while but well worth it.

Those of us who maintain older gasoline motors, have units that were not designed to use ethanol gasoline. Ethanol can cause older engines to burn valves seats. The newer engines I understand have valve seats that can withstand the higher temperature.

Older fuel lines were not designed to handle ethanol either. I have found out that the fuel lines that Attwood makes are not 100% effective against ethanol. Attwood has added a liner to their hose as a solution but even that sometimes fails. Check your fuel lines to make sure they have not deteriorated and creating partial or full blockage. Extra care must be taken when repairing the Attwood hose because the inner liner must fit over the fitting to assure proper flow.

Auto supply houses has a hose that is good for ethanol but it is not designed to with stand sun light as the Attwood hoses are. If the auto hose is exposed to sunlight in your usage be sure the check regularly
for signs of deterioration, especially cracks.

Use a pressure gauge to check output pressure from your fuel pump. Here again ethanol is not kind to the diaphragm in the fuel pump.

This for those of you who use the portable fuel tanks. The EPA required fuel connections that I purchased, don't recall brand name but bought at Walmart or Academy, proved not to be dependable on making proper connection each time. They are designed to prevent fuel spillage when disconnecting fuel lines. Sometime connection was good and sometime it would hinder fuel flow. For that reason I took the time to removed the fixed on board fuel tank from my pontoon and give it a through cleaning. It has permanent fitting. Collection of water and other crud was the reason I went to a portable tank in the past but now the on board tank if good.

I found out the above information while battling a problem with my motor. Motor would not reach max rpm. Some time it would reach 3/4 rpm for a short while and then fail as if it was out of fuel so I investigated the fuel system. As it turned out there were two problems: 1. the EPA fuel required portable fuel tank connection was not dependable and that caused the motor to reach 3/4 rpm and then die down because it was restricting fuel flow. ( After total rebuild of the fuel distribution system it still failed to reach max rpm, but did not slow because of fuel starvation.) 2. the real reason motor would not reach max rpm turned out to be bad reed plates. When I googled the problem on line I got all kinds of solutions. Timing, fuel distribution, plugs, coils, but not a mention of reed plates, if fact a few said it would not be reed plates. My advice is this. Remove silencer covers from front of carburetor and check for blow back. If you have blow back trough carburetor, then reed plates need to be inspected. My engine used three reed plates with six fingers on each reed plate. I found the out of the total 18 fingers 12 were not seating properly. They also cause excessive fuel consumption. Engine now runs great.

I forgot to mention that the engine is a 1988 model so I guess the reed plates had a reason to fail. I did the repair myself and total bill was less the $150. Reed plates were not as expensive as I expected, $106.99 for three reed plates, shipping and tax.

Before I decided spent the money on reed plates, I rechecked compression and found it to be within limits but still was hesitant to proceed so pulled head and inspected cylinders for any sign of damage but they were in good shape.

So total cost was reed plates, manifold gasket and head gasket.

I am posting this in hopes someone will benefit from my efforts. I know that I learned a great deal and I have been doing engine repair all my life but not as much on 2 cycle engines they are a breed of their own.

Thanks for reading. Any questions.
Fuel problems br br If you are having fuel probl... (show quote)

Thanks 3Cs, for a very informative post. If I could add one thing, Auto fuel line is not Coast Guard approved for marine use and will cause you to fail any onboard inspection. Any reputable marine dealer can get you Legal ethanol proof fuel line.

Reply
Jul 26, 2020 22:26:11   #
threeCs Loc: Allen Texas
 
Fredfish wrote:
Thanks 3Cs, for a very informative post. If I could add one thing, Auto fuel line is not Coast Guard approved for marine use and will cause you to fail any onboard inspection. Any reputable marine dealer can get you Legal ethanol proof fuel line.


You are correct. I order CG approved fuel line from Auto Zone. It is marked as CG approved. My mistake for not covering that fact

Reply
 
 
Jul 27, 2020 07:15:43   #
Larry B Loc: Key Largo, FL
 
Great information, I’m lucky I live in the Florida Keys most stations carry Rec 90 ethanol free fuel a must many of the boats here hold over 100 gallons of fuel mine holds a 180 gallons a little expensive when filling up.

Reply
Jul 27, 2020 12:29:07   #
threeCs Loc: Allen Texas
 
Fredfish wrote:
Thanks 3Cs, for a very informative post. If I could add one thing, Auto fuel line is not Coast Guard approved for marine use and will cause you to fail any onboard inspection. Any reputable marine dealer can get you Legal ethanol proof fuel line.


I have already replied to this once but wanted to comment further. I built my first boat in late 1950s and had a Firestone 9.5 outboard motor. In first part of 1960 I purchased a 14 foot Arkansas Traveler alum boat used. Moved the motor over to that boat. In later part of 1960 purchased a used Tri Hill for boys to ski behind. So now I have two boats. In 1988 traded the tri hull in on a 1988 24 foot pontoon, Sill have two boats. Two years ago I gave the Arkansas to my eldest son. (Went fishing with him and granddaughter Saturday before last) .

Point being that here in this part of Texas there is no requirement for safety inspection other than Game Warren and Park Ranges. You have to register it every two years through the Texas Park and Wildlife Department. I understand you can request a Coast Guard Inspection and if you pass they will give you a decal to affix to you boat. If you fail they just give you a list of what you failed. It is the Park Ranges who perform inspections as I understand it.

In all the years I have owned a boat I have only had the Park Rangers approach my boat one time. I was anchored and I had all three grandchildren on board and they just wanted to know if I had life jackets for all aboard. Don't get me wrong I truly believe in safety. I have all the necessary equipment required by law.

I do not know what the difference between auto fuel line and USCG approved line but since I purchased USCG approved line I am not going to take the time to find out.

In other states and around other lakes the Coast Guard may be active but not around here.

That being said ' Watch me get inspected the next time I am on the lake". Park Ranger's boat is three slips away from mine. Great bunch of men.

Reply
Jul 27, 2020 13:39:04   #
Fredfish Loc: Prospect CT.
 
threeCs wrote:
I have already replied to this once but wanted to comment further. I built my first boat in late 1950s and had a Firestone 9.5 outboard motor. In first part of 1960 I purchased a 14 foot Arkansas Traveler alum boat used. Moved the motor over to that boat. In later part of 1960 purchased a used Tri Hill for boys to ski behind. So now I have two boats. In 1988 traded the tri hull in on a 1988 24 foot pontoon, Sill have two boats. Two years ago I gave the Arkansas to my eldest son. (Went fishing with him and granddaughter Saturday before last) .

Point being that here in this part of Texas there is no requirement for safety inspection other than Game Warren and Park Ranges. You have to register it every two years through the Texas Park and Wildlife Department. I understand you can request a Coast Guard Inspection and if you pass they will give you a decal to affix to you boat. If you fail they just give you a list of what you failed. It is the Park Ranges who perform inspections as I understand it.

In all the years I have owned a boat I have only had the Park Rangers approach my boat one time. I was anchored and I had all three grandchildren on board and they just wanted to know if I had life jackets for all aboard. Don't get me wrong I truly believe in safety. I have all the necessary equipment required by law.

I do not know what the difference between auto fuel line and USCG approved line but since I purchased USCG approved line I am not going to take the time to find out.

In other states and around other lakes the Coast Guard may be active but not around here.

That being said ' Watch me get inspected the next time I am on the lake". Park Ranger's boat is three slips away from mine. Great bunch of men.
I have already replied to this once but wanted to ... (show quote)


Yeah 3Cs,Up here in the saltwater, any Marine Patrol officer can board your boat and inspect everything. We also have a few Coast Guard stations along the coastline. They also patrol,and will board you on occasion. On most bigger lakes,the surrounding towns have their own marine patrol boats,and can board your boat on request. I've been told by a few that they follow Coast Guard guidelines, but safety requirements are priority. The other thing to consider is,if you have non approved equipment, and have a fire on board, your Insurance probably won't cover damage or injury resulting from it. That would include a "Marine " carburetor, starter,and alternator, on Inboard or Inboard-Outboard (Sterndrive) powered boats. These items need to be "Ignition Proof ". That means no fuel vapors emitted, and no sparks emitted during operation. You would be amazed at how many cheep out and put car parts on their boats. So Everyone, STAY SAFE out there!

Reply
Jul 27, 2020 18:46:30   #
Billy Bob Loc: Terre Haute,IN
 
I run a 200 HP Evinrude that is 20 years old. I have it maintained very well. Ethnol free gas is almost impossible to find here in central Indiana. There are a few places, but it is not always possible to drive where it is at. I use 87 octane gas and add Star-Tron gas treatment. 20 year old motor and still hums right along.

Reply
 
 
Jul 27, 2020 22:42:28   #
campbellclan Loc: Levy Co. Florida
 
I bought a 1987 115hp mercury, the old Tower of Power. I completely rebuilt it, its like new. before I started it I flushed out the fuel tank put on new hoses and most importantly a Parker Fuel Filter with a water separator, 30 micron filter. I use Ethanol gas with marine stable treatment, have had no gas problems as yet. (I keep my fingers crossed)

Reply
Jul 27, 2020 23:08:54   #
Fredfish Loc: Prospect CT.
 
Billy Bob wrote:
I run a 200 HP Evinrude that is 20 years old. I have it maintained very well. Ethnol free gas is almost impossible to find here in central Indiana. There are a few places, but it is not always possible to drive where it is at. I use 87 octane gas and add Star-Tron gas treatment. 20 year old motor and still hums right along.


Yeah BB, my 1990 Merc is still running like a top.. Run mostly 87, but occasionally I'll throw a batch of 93 in. There are more additives in premium. But Startron goes in every tank. I just started using the Marine blend last season. It's much more concentrated,so you use less.

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