Any Fishermen here who also know lubricants?
Dec 30, 2019 20:18:04 #
Salty Dog
Loc: Punta Gorda, Florida
I'm new to this Carbonex Drag Washers and would like to convert all my reels to them. What I'm having questions about is the lube to use, and what it's properties are that make it compatible with Carbontex.
Any scientific reason why this would not work?
Technical Specs
Multipurpose Dupont White Lithium Grease NLGI Grade2 Base OilMineral Container Size10 oz. NSF Rating NotRated Grease ThickenerPTFE Grease ColorWhite Grease ContainerAerosol Can Lubricant AdditivesPTFE Min. Operating Temp.97 Degrees F Max. Operating Temp.500 Degrees F Flash PointNo Four-Ball Wear0.40mm Specific Gravity1.95 Timken OK Load30 lb. ApplicationLubricate Valves, Seals, O-Rings, Gaskets, Bearings, Sliding
Just trying to understand what and why something like Cal's works while other lubes might not.
TIA
Any scientific reason why this would not work?
Technical Specs
Multipurpose Dupont White Lithium Grease NLGI Grade2 Base OilMineral Container Size10 oz. NSF Rating NotRated Grease ThickenerPTFE Grease ColorWhite Grease ContainerAerosol Can Lubricant AdditivesPTFE Min. Operating Temp.97 Degrees F Max. Operating Temp.500 Degrees F Flash PointNo Four-Ball Wear0.40mm Specific Gravity1.95 Timken OK Load30 lb. ApplicationLubricate Valves, Seals, O-Rings, Gaskets, Bearings, Sliding
Just trying to understand what and why something like Cal's works while other lubes might not.
TIA
Dec 30, 2019 20:37:29 #
There are a couple guys on here who regularly tune up and rebuild reels. One of them probably knows and will hopefully chime in here.
Dec 30, 2019 22:11:25 #
bottomcoon
Loc: Tahlequah, oklahoma
I've been researching tricking out my reels with carbontex washers & hybrid bearings. All the big suppliers recommend & sell a variety of lubes for their products. I would recommend contacting one of those suppliers & chatting with customer service about getting the right lube.
Dec 30, 2019 23:30:26 #
Salty Dog
Loc: Punta Gorda, Florida
It would seem, based on what I've read and what others have posted here in the past, that the main concerns are that a lube for carbontex requires Teflon (PTFE), the ability to function at high temperature (up to 500 degrees F), anti corrosion, waterproofing, the ability to function under load, and of course provide a smooth slick surface with stop and stick so characteristic of felt washers.
There are both grease (mineral oil based) and dry lubricants that fill the above requirements, so I'm guessing any of these will work. I can't find any specs on Cal's Drag washer grease however, so it's properties are unknown and all we have to go by is the sales pitch.
The big variable is price. Example. Cal's Drag Grease is around $7 per ounce, while the above Dupont PTFE is $15 for 10 ounces or $ 1.50 per ounce.! That's a hell of a difference for what seems to be comparable products. Granted, few will use enough of either to make the price difference a big deal, but I do like to get the most bang for the buck!🙂
The most informative info I've found so far is from Alan Tani who is considered very reputable. He wrote:
This is from Alan Tani the Fishing Reel Repair Guy.
quote:
4/15/09 - There a four different lubricants that I use in fishing reels. A “one size fits all” approach will work in some situations, but not this one. This continues to be a work in progress. As of this writing, April 2009, here are the four lubes that I’ve settled on.
Blue Grease – There are several different manufacturers that market blue greases for fishing reels. These products are all hydrocarbon based, salt water resistant, they never harden, (important to a service center) they stay blue forever and cost only $5 to 15 per pound. You can service a reel, open it up 10 years later and know that you’ve worked on it before. These blue greases can be packed into non-spool bearings, applied to all screws, gears and other non-exposed metal surfaces, and provide a lifetime of corrosion resistance. The product that I use is the $5 per pound Yamaha All Purpose Engine Grease. Don’t use these blue greases on drag washers.
Drag Grease – There are currently three drag greases on the market, available from Shimano, Cal Sheets and Xtreme Lubricants. These products are Teflon-based and cost from $25 to 50 per pound. One way to separate these products is by melting temperature. Shimano’s drag grease melts at 300 degrees Fahrenheit, Cal’s drag grease melts at 500 degrees F, and the Xtreme drag grease melts at 1000 degrees F. Water, of course, boils at 212 degrees F at sea level. Unless you see steam coming from you fishing reel, you are nowhere near the melting temperature for any of these products. Under the heaviest drag settings with several hundred yard runs, there is a phenomenon called “high speed runout.” Cal Sheets describes a decrease in drag pressure when a big fish is running long, hard and fast with lower melting temperature Teflon greases. This would not be a concern in the vast majority of situations. The product that I am currently using is the $25 per pound Cal’s Drag, although the Shimano and Xtreme products perform equally well in the light tackle applications that I am commonly faced with.
Oils – For years, WD-40 had been a popular lubricant in fishing reels, but it turns to varnish over time and has generally fallen out of favor. Many other light hydrocarbon-based oils are available and provide excellent lubricant properties without turning to varnish over time. The product that I have used for the last ten years is Corrosion X. The polar molecular bonding that Corrosion X, Reel X and Speed X offer will give these products excellent lubricating properties and long life. I use these products on any parts of a reel that need a lighter lubricant that a heavy grease. Handles, levers, level wind assemblies, bearings and bushing are the most common places in a reel that are oiled rather than greased. Corrosion X sprayed into an old rag, after a fresh water rinse and towel dry, is also an excellent way of wiping down your reel after a day of fishing.
Dry Teflon Lubricants – For the last 2 months, I have been using a dry Teflon lubricant from Xtreme Lubricants on spool bearings. After cleaning out spool bearings and lubricating them with hydrocarbon based oils, freespool times of 30 to 60 seconds are typical. Lubricating these same spool bearings with one of these dry Teflon lubricants will increase the freespool times from seconds to minutes. Larger spools with a great deal of rotational inertia can spin for up to 5 minutes when the bearings are lubed with these newer dry Teflon lubes. Hydrocarbon-based oils can form can actually form a hydrodynamic wedge (like a standing wave on a very small scale) in front of the balls of the bearings that will actually slow your spin rate. The improvement in freespool time is dramatic! Another reel tech and I had independently tried this product, saw the improvement, and decided in a microsecond that we were going to use this product in our own personal reels. At issue is what to do for a customer. Corrosion resistance is still a concern, but even my tried and true Corrosion x does not last forever. So how good (or bad) is the corrosion protection from these dry Teflon lubes? I will have a final answer for you next year. For me personally, I know that better freespool will give me longer casting distances, and longer casting distances will catch me more fish.
Now, while this is very informative, it doesn't cover other options; just what he favors. I guess ultimately I will just wind up testing different products.
Thanks for your input!
Cheers
There are both grease (mineral oil based) and dry lubricants that fill the above requirements, so I'm guessing any of these will work. I can't find any specs on Cal's Drag washer grease however, so it's properties are unknown and all we have to go by is the sales pitch.
The big variable is price. Example. Cal's Drag Grease is around $7 per ounce, while the above Dupont PTFE is $15 for 10 ounces or $ 1.50 per ounce.! That's a hell of a difference for what seems to be comparable products. Granted, few will use enough of either to make the price difference a big deal, but I do like to get the most bang for the buck!🙂
The most informative info I've found so far is from Alan Tani who is considered very reputable. He wrote:
This is from Alan Tani the Fishing Reel Repair Guy.
quote:
4/15/09 - There a four different lubricants that I use in fishing reels. A “one size fits all” approach will work in some situations, but not this one. This continues to be a work in progress. As of this writing, April 2009, here are the four lubes that I’ve settled on.
Blue Grease – There are several different manufacturers that market blue greases for fishing reels. These products are all hydrocarbon based, salt water resistant, they never harden, (important to a service center) they stay blue forever and cost only $5 to 15 per pound. You can service a reel, open it up 10 years later and know that you’ve worked on it before. These blue greases can be packed into non-spool bearings, applied to all screws, gears and other non-exposed metal surfaces, and provide a lifetime of corrosion resistance. The product that I use is the $5 per pound Yamaha All Purpose Engine Grease. Don’t use these blue greases on drag washers.
Drag Grease – There are currently three drag greases on the market, available from Shimano, Cal Sheets and Xtreme Lubricants. These products are Teflon-based and cost from $25 to 50 per pound. One way to separate these products is by melting temperature. Shimano’s drag grease melts at 300 degrees Fahrenheit, Cal’s drag grease melts at 500 degrees F, and the Xtreme drag grease melts at 1000 degrees F. Water, of course, boils at 212 degrees F at sea level. Unless you see steam coming from you fishing reel, you are nowhere near the melting temperature for any of these products. Under the heaviest drag settings with several hundred yard runs, there is a phenomenon called “high speed runout.” Cal Sheets describes a decrease in drag pressure when a big fish is running long, hard and fast with lower melting temperature Teflon greases. This would not be a concern in the vast majority of situations. The product that I am currently using is the $25 per pound Cal’s Drag, although the Shimano and Xtreme products perform equally well in the light tackle applications that I am commonly faced with.
Oils – For years, WD-40 had been a popular lubricant in fishing reels, but it turns to varnish over time and has generally fallen out of favor. Many other light hydrocarbon-based oils are available and provide excellent lubricant properties without turning to varnish over time. The product that I have used for the last ten years is Corrosion X. The polar molecular bonding that Corrosion X, Reel X and Speed X offer will give these products excellent lubricating properties and long life. I use these products on any parts of a reel that need a lighter lubricant that a heavy grease. Handles, levers, level wind assemblies, bearings and bushing are the most common places in a reel that are oiled rather than greased. Corrosion X sprayed into an old rag, after a fresh water rinse and towel dry, is also an excellent way of wiping down your reel after a day of fishing.
Dry Teflon Lubricants – For the last 2 months, I have been using a dry Teflon lubricant from Xtreme Lubricants on spool bearings. After cleaning out spool bearings and lubricating them with hydrocarbon based oils, freespool times of 30 to 60 seconds are typical. Lubricating these same spool bearings with one of these dry Teflon lubricants will increase the freespool times from seconds to minutes. Larger spools with a great deal of rotational inertia can spin for up to 5 minutes when the bearings are lubed with these newer dry Teflon lubes. Hydrocarbon-based oils can form can actually form a hydrodynamic wedge (like a standing wave on a very small scale) in front of the balls of the bearings that will actually slow your spin rate. The improvement in freespool time is dramatic! Another reel tech and I had independently tried this product, saw the improvement, and decided in a microsecond that we were going to use this product in our own personal reels. At issue is what to do for a customer. Corrosion resistance is still a concern, but even my tried and true Corrosion x does not last forever. So how good (or bad) is the corrosion protection from these dry Teflon lubes? I will have a final answer for you next year. For me personally, I know that better freespool will give me longer casting distances, and longer casting distances will catch me more fish.
Now, while this is very informative, it doesn't cover other options; just what he favors. I guess ultimately I will just wind up testing different products.
Thanks for your input!
Cheers
Dec 31, 2019 00:16:40 #
great post SD. I'm going to save this one for future reference. Thank you.
Dec 31, 2019 00:17:59 #
3 in One oil. Lubricant, protectant, anti rust/corrosion. Small white bottle with red cap. Best I’ve ever used! Fantastic for reels. Keeps a new reel new, and will bring an old reel back to life.🏄🏼♂️🎣
Dec 31, 2019 00:26:37 #
My ma used it to grease up her sewing machine, and it's still running and so is she at 98.
Dec 31, 2019 00:41:18 #
Don't know anything about those washers but I've worked on everything from A-10s to john Deere's and we always swore by the lubriplate white grease in the silver and black tube. Sorry I can't remember the exact name and specs
Dec 31, 2019 07:05:49 #
Salty Dog
Loc: Punta Gorda, Florida
Seafoam wrote:
Don't know anything about those washers but I've worked on everything from A-10s to john Deere's and we always swore by the lubriplate white grease in the silver and black tube. Sorry I can't remember the exact name and specs
Thank you Seafoam. You just really complicated this issue!😄
Brings back memories of military service where we used Lubriplate to lube our M1's and replacement M14's.
https://www.lubriplate.com/Industrial/Industrial-Products/Category-Items/Multi-Purpose-Greases-(1)/
Too many to choose from!
Looks like this one may be a good candidate though as it is the only one with PTFE.
https://www.lubriplate.com/Products/Grease/Multi-Purpose-Greases/SYN-ST-HIGH-PERF-H-1-SPECIAL/SYN-ST-HIGH-PERF-H-1-SPECIAL/
Cheers!
Dec 31, 2019 07:21:27 #
Salty Dog
Loc: Punta Gorda, Florida
Hello Bassface. Yes, 3-in-1 has a lot of applications including reel lube, but I don't believe carbontex drag washers is one of them. It is especially not recommenced for salt water fishing, which is all I do. Otherwise it's a great product that no one should be without IMHO.
From https://elaborateman.com/3-in-1-oil-for-fishing-reels/:
In the first place, since the oil is not a completely synthetic oil, it is not very compatible with salt water. So you might want to be choosy where you fish.
Also, the oil is known to be ‘gummy’ and thickens fairly easily thereby impairing the performance and smoothness of the reel. Some anglers have reported that the 3-in-1 oil jammed their reels after some time.
Cheers!
From https://elaborateman.com/3-in-1-oil-for-fishing-reels/:
In the first place, since the oil is not a completely synthetic oil, it is not very compatible with salt water. So you might want to be choosy where you fish.
Also, the oil is known to be ‘gummy’ and thickens fairly easily thereby impairing the performance and smoothness of the reel. Some anglers have reported that the 3-in-1 oil jammed their reels after some time.
Cheers!
Dec 31, 2019 14:59:37 #
Use a silicone based possibly dielectric grease its less messy I use it on all my reels.
Jan 9, 2020 16:41:47 #
Ron620DVS
Loc: Guntersville Alabama
Best Fishing Reel Oil & Grease, Extend the Life of Your Reels!
If you’ve ever neglected to lubricate a fishing reel until you could literally feel the internal gears grinding – then you’ll know how important proper reel maintenance is. Forgetting to perform proper maintenance can lead to seized reels, corrosion, and a shorter lifespan for your precious reels.
Regularly applying fishing reel grease and oil will go a long way to extend the life of your fishing gear.
Just like with other gear involving complex moving parts – fishing reels will start to wear down without enough lubrication. Gears, drag washers, bearings, and sliding mechanisms all need regular lubrication to keep them working optimally.
https://thecoastalside.com/best-fishing-reel-oil-and-grease/
.
If you’ve ever neglected to lubricate a fishing reel until you could literally feel the internal gears grinding – then you’ll know how important proper reel maintenance is. Forgetting to perform proper maintenance can lead to seized reels, corrosion, and a shorter lifespan for your precious reels.
Regularly applying fishing reel grease and oil will go a long way to extend the life of your fishing gear.
Just like with other gear involving complex moving parts – fishing reels will start to wear down without enough lubrication. Gears, drag washers, bearings, and sliding mechanisms all need regular lubrication to keep them working optimally.
https://thecoastalside.com/best-fishing-reel-oil-and-grease/
.
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